Bowel Moments

MB Mooney- Friendship, Crohn’s, And A Brave Little Mouse

• Alicia Barron and Robin Kingham • Season 1 • Episode 152

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A mouse who can’t eat cheese and an owl who loves her anyway—sometimes the simplest stories hold the biggest truths. We welcome author MB Mooney to share how The Mouse Who Couldn’t Eat Cheese grew from the life and legacy of Alex, a bright, owl‑loving kid who lived with Crohn’s disease and inspired a foundation, Beautiful Beyond the Pain. Instead of a medical explainer, MB wrote a friendship-first tale that helps children understand invisible illness, practice empathy, and see vulnerability as a path to connection.

We open up the creative process behind writing for kids and parents at once: crafting a title that hooks curiosity, choosing scenes that feel honest, and striking a tone that respects young readers without sanding down the hard parts. MB explains why children’s books are tougher than they look, how early readers—many without any IBD connection—found universal meaning in the story, and what it takes to put your heart on the page when criticism is part of the job. For aspiring authors in the chronic illness community, he shares a practical roadmap: draft freely, revise with audience in mind, find a writing group for accountability and critique, and build resilience for the inevitable one‑star review.

We also look ahead to future volumes featuring Alex the Owl, including a potential ADHD story drawn from MB’s family experience. Along the way we talk about making invisible illness visible, helping kids self‑advocate, and why every community benefits when friends learn to meet each other’s needs with flexibility and care. If you’re a parent, patient, educator, or creator looking for stories that heal and tools that help, this conversation is a warm, grounded guide.

If the episode resonates, follow the show, share it with a friend, and leave a quick review—your support helps more listeners find thoughtful conversations like this one.

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SPEAKER_02:

Hi, I'm Alicia. And I'm Robin, and you're listening to Bowel Moments, the podcast sharing real talk about the realities of IDD. Serve the rocks! This week we talked to M.B. Mooney. MB Mooney is the author of the book The Mouse Who Couldn't Eat Cheese. It's a really sweet story about the budding friendship between Maya the Mouse and Alex the Owl. Maya the Mouse is living with Crohn's disease, and she has to tell Alex all about it in order to help her understand why she couldn't play. We talk about the genesis of this story and about the real life Alex, who is living with Crohn's disease, who inspired this story and her family's foundation. We talk to MB Mooney about being an author and about what it's like to put all of your creativity out into the world. And we talk about so many more things. We know you're going to enjoy this conversation just as much as we did. Cheers.

SPEAKER_03:

Hey everybody, welcome to Bowel Moments. This is Robin.

SPEAKER_02:

Hello, everyone. This is Alicia. And we are very, very excited to be joined by MB Mooney. MB, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, we are really excited to hear your story and your connection to the IBD community because it is different than our other guests. So we're we're stoked about that. But our first very unprofessional question is what are you drinking?

SPEAKER_01:

What I am drinking is it's not too exciting. It's just decaf coffee. I do have some water over here, so you might see me switch it up. But yeah, just coffee.

SPEAKER_02:

You and you and Robin cut from the same cloth over there. What'd you call yourself, Robin? A bev a beverage goblin?

SPEAKER_03:

Yes, I'm a beverage goblin. I have multiple beverages.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, yes. My wife makes fun of me because sometimes at dinner I'll have like a water and a this and a that and a tea and something, and she's like, You got do you have enough? Or if it happens to be another sort of night, which it isn't tonight, you know, there might be something maybe in the coffee or another sort of beverage, but you never know.

SPEAKER_02:

Very nice. Robin, which what are you drinking?

SPEAKER_03:

I have I'm trying spindriff. Have you had spindruff?

SPEAKER_02:

No. Yes, that's what I'm drinking right now.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, so I have the lemon and lime spindriff. This is really good.

SPEAKER_02:

It is. This is the one that I told you that they have drink recipes on their website too, either like mocktails or cocktails, using their like their beverages. So I tried this the other day. Like it was a like a skinny margarita essentially, because you used that lemon lime version. And then you added obviously tequila and some other stuff and some like fresh juices to like pump it up a little bit. It was pretty good. It's definitely lighter, obviously, than a regular margarita, which you know, sometimes you just want that sugar bomb. But yeah, it was it was a nice version of it. So yeah, I'm a big fan. And actually, that is also what I'm drinking. I have pink lemonade version, which is very nice. I'm a big fan. Well, so cheers, guys. Cheers. Cheers. MB, we are really excited to hear your story. So, next question for you is what is your connection to the IBD community? What brought you into our world?

SPEAKER_01:

So, my connection began with some friends, church, the Davidson family. Lori and John were the parents, and their youngest daughter, Alex, dealt with Crohn's disease from a very young, not I don't know about a very young, but a young age. And so we knew about her and some of her struggles. And we didn't see her a ton because she was in the hospital a lot. But you know, we talked about her and and you know, and her parents talked about her a lot. And then she she passed away at a young age with from complications from Crohn's, and she kind of told her parents that she wanted to inspire other people, she wanted to help other kids because this is probably 12, 12 years ago. And while I think there are more people aware of Crohn's disease and these sort of things now, she was the first person I'd ever seen, I mean, and and met or known with it. And so they started a foundation. And one of the ideas that they had about bringing awareness to people was to write a children's book. So John and Lori talked to the, well, actually, it was it was Lori. She talked to the only writer she knew, which was me. And as you've already commented before we started recording, most of my writing at the time was killing dragons and cutting monsters' heads off and that sort of thing. And so they came to me and said, We've got this idea for a children's book. Would you write it? And sort of, you know, we met. And at the time, my kids were like three, five, and seven. So we were reading them a lot of children's books. And they were reading their own children's books because they could read by then. Most of another three-year-old, not yet, but we taught our kids to read very young. So I loved children's books, and I was kind of already doing some research. So I said yes, knowing it was going to be a huge challenge. And they basically gave me the idea, the title, The Mouse Who Couldn't Eat Cheese. So there's going to be a mouse in it. And she wanted an owl character whose name was Alex after her daughter. That's really all she gave me. So I did a lot of research and I did a lot of, you know, praying and brainstorming and just trying to find. And I asked her a lot of questions. So I asked Lori a lot of questions about a little about Crohn's disease, but also just about growing up, what it was like for Alex and what some of her struggles were. Then we got to the book and I wrote the book.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, my first question is definitely what is the significance of the owl? You said that she wanted she wanted an owl character and she wanted Alex to be the owl character. So is was there a reason for that?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, Alex really liked owls. The foundation they started was called Beautiful Beyond the Pain. And the the logo was had an owl in it, right? So uh owls were a big part of something stuff that Alex liked, and you know, they kind of transitioned that into the and the idea was if if we get to do more books, then basically, you know, the owl would be sort of in all of them, and then they would sort of switch around, like because the idea was to do other books on other sorts of issues like ADHD or something like that, like try sort of do some more other books, but obviously we for obvious reasons we wanted to start with the Crohn's disease, and and I I think it's you know, I've I've gotten a lot of good feedback from it, so I think I did okay.

SPEAKER_03:

My question is does it make it harder when they come to you and say the title of the book is this and we want this character to be this? Because when you're writing the books that you write, it's just your imagination. And so they've already set parameters, and then I'm assuming you're thinking about reading level, what age is this book gonna be for? And you're thinking about you have to try to condense this big experience down into words that a child will understand. But I mean, does it make it harder when they say we want the name to be this and a character to be this?

SPEAKER_01:

In this case, not as much. So sometimes, yes. Sometimes actually a title can be a big help, can be a big kickstarter for the for the brainstorming process. So this was such a great title. Like it's a great title, The Mouse Who Couldn't Eat Cheese, right? It immediately begs a question like mouse, you know, mice should eat cheese. Why can't this one eat cheese? And so I thought it was a great title. And so, yeah, the hard part for me was again just first writing a children's book because I'd never done it. And a lot of people don't realize writing a children's book is actually more difficult than adult books, because you actually have two audiences. You have the parents who read the book and they're going to buy the book, but you're trying to write at the same time for a young child, so they get something out of it. And if you think about the greatest, like your favorite children's books, you most of them are the kind that appeal to both, right? Because the the parents are getting something out of it while they're reading it too. And they connect with the message, so they want that message to go to their kid, right? I mean, that's sort of the whole that's those are the great ones, you know, in my opinion at least. And so that to me was the biggest obstacle. Because usually when you're writing, like if I'm writing fantasy, I mean, the fantasy audience, I know what the fantasy audience likes, right? I mean, I know what they're gonna like. I mean, you know, that's the audience I'm doing. So for this, it was more, okay, how how can I kind of come up with a theme or a message or an idea that was universal enough? And that's why I went away from just explaining what Crohn's disease was. Like I didn't want to do that kind of book. I know that sounds weird, but I wanted to bring awareness, but I didn't want it to be like a science book where there was just facts about Crohn's disease. So I made it more about relationship and because that's a lot of what I heard from Lori when I was asking her those questions. What was her life like? You know, it was hard to have friends and you know, those sort of things. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I think using it as a way to build empathy within kids, because I mean, kids don't care necessarily about learning about Crohn's disease. They, you know, but they care about the message and they care about the story that goes along with it. So I think that's great. How much did you know about Crohn's disease before you wrote this book? And like before you met the family, perhaps even.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, before I met the family, I'd I'd never I didn't even know what it was. I mean, I had never heard of it. Although I I commented to my wife on Saturday because I was watching uh football and I saw two medications advertised for and I was like, I I I don't know, I don't think I don't watch a lot of TV with commercials anymore, but I was like, I I'd never seen that before, you know, mostly it's different, you know, issues, medical issues. So yeah, so I knew very little and I knew nothing before I met them, and I and I still knew kind of little. I knew it was you know, obviously something with the with digestion, and because we knew that she was having surgeries, you know, she had some some things removed to try to you know do differ different things, and it was it was just a lot. So I so I knew some of it, but you know, it wasn't until later that I really sort of really got into learning about it that I realized, and it kind of makes sense when you think about it, right? There's different levels of it, there's different, you know, some people can have it, but it not be so severe, but there's different more severe cases.

SPEAKER_02:

First, my initial thought was were you tempted to sneak any fantasy into the book just for you know, because that's your wheelhouse. Maybe just a little dragon.

SPEAKER_01:

No, well, so to be honest, no, I so while I love fantasy, I love all sorts of stories. So for me, it's really fun to say, I'm just not gonna do fantasy. I want to do this, you know. I haven't yet, but like if I was gonna write a mystery or a romance, I would, you know, you know, maybe people who read me would like for me to do that within a fantasy novel, but like it would be fun for me to do, you know, like a you know, 30s noir mystery, you know, gumshoe novel. I mean, it would just be fun. So I like all sorts of types of stories. And so for me, uh, I didn't have any real temptation to make you know, put a sword in the in the owl's hand or something. No.

SPEAKER_02:

Maybe Alex the Owl can become a private detective after maybe private investigator.

SPEAKER_01:

That's the next one.

SPEAKER_02:

That's the next one. And she goes and investigates diseases. I kind of like this. Listen, we'll workshop with you. We'll workshop. I love this. Is part of your getting the word out about this? Are you like sending copies to children's hospitals? Like, what are you doing to kind of promote the book, number one? And then also, what's been the response?

SPEAKER_01:

So, what we've done so far with promotion was you know, we've contacted different people in the community like you guys, and I know you know, we did like a giveaway with an influencer, she has Crohn's disease, and you know, we read the book at at Camp Oasis, which is right here in Georgia, that they do have a camp for kids with Crohn's disease. So, you know, I've uh read read at different places, didn't done some book signings. We haven't really, I would like I would love to. So if anyone out there is listening and has a way to do this, but yeah, we haven't really found a way to kind of get into like children's hospitals or doctors' offices, pediatricians, or something. That's one of the things I was thinking as I was writing it. This is going to be for you know those kind of places and libraries and schools and stuff too, but not quite as much of that. I mean, I I've had some features get it and read it to their classes and stuff like that. As far as response, I have been very pleased. You know, I I just did a we did a an interview with somebody connect to cure, connecting to cure. We used I did an interview, they're they're gonna post it on their Instagram as a video. But Michelle, who interviewed me, she had Crohn's disease and she had read it and she said she could really relate to it. So uh another thing that was challenging about this book, I see. I like to challenge myself when I write a book. Another thing that was challenging was I wanted it to bring awareness. So I wanted to kind of write it for kids who may not know what Crohn's disease was and try to teach them how to have empathy and make space and all that stuff. At the same time, I wanted either people or kids with Crohn's to feel seen and heard because one thing that kind of kept coming out, and this is kind of why it's called Beautiful Beyond the Pain with Lori, the mom. And what I heard often, even before I wrote the book, was that Crohn's is sort of an invisible illness. Like a lot of people don't know you've got it. And therefore, it's something you kind of have to talk about in a different, in a different way. You have to be vulnerable and share that. So I wanted to have that in the book. I wanted to have a moment where the mouse had to kind of be vulnerable and take that risk for friendship to say, hey, you need to know this about me, and then kind of have that be part of the solution, right? Part of the solution was for, you know, the mouse, the person with Crohn's disease to kind of self-advocate. And I didn't use all these words, right? I'm just, you know, all that sort of stuff. Those are these are grown-up words, but you know, to because I think kids who have Crohn's need to learn that they're worth advocating for themselves so they can have friends, because they need friends too. Everybody needs friends. And uh, so the response I've gotten has been all of that. You know, people without Crohn's who read it, they love it. When I first read the book, and this was, you know, before, you know, this is 12 years before it got published, took a long time. Find the right publisher who believed in it. And when I first read it to my writing group, who were a bunch of adults in in person, they all cried. And not because they knew anybody with Crohn's disease, but because they had known somebody when they were kids who had some sort of chronic illness, who had passed away, or who had gone through a really hard time, or whatever the thing was. And so the fact that it sparked that sort of universal connection, I was really happy about. And then a writer friend of mine gave me a really good compliment too. He said, This is the kind of book that's good for adults and kids. So, like, like I said before, I was like, oh, maybe I did it. Maybe, maybe I actually, you know, challenged myself and did it. So those are the kind of responses I've gotten where, you know, people who even don't have Crohn's disease really can find that universal message in it. But then I've heard many times from people with Crohn's disease and whether for their kids or themselves, that this is a great, you know, it's a great sort of thing to talk about, about making friends and what it means to kind of give space. You know, because Alex was in the hospital a lot. And it's so it's hard to kind of keep friends that way, right? I mean, because they got to come visit you there, or you gotta find creative ways. And so that's why I wanted there to be sort of this creative way for them to spend time together that wasn't maybe wasn't on the surface what they would have chosen, you know.

SPEAKER_02:

That's really lovely. Uh it's fun to hear how your writers' group responded to it because it shows that yeah, it's a universal and and sort of endearing and and enduring story for a lot of people. Like if they can look back and think of those kids in school that they're like, oh my gosh, I remember that kid. And you know, so I think that's super lovely. This is a question you may not want to answer, not at all taking this book into account, but you are a writer, you're somebody who puts your creativity and you like your heart out into the world on a regular basis. And not everybody loves it all the time, I would imagine. So, how do you handle when somebody doesn't love something that you've like put your blood, sweat, tears, thoughts, joys, hopes, fears into, and they like say something negative. Obviously, we're not pertaining to this book. I'm just saying in general.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. So, first I would say, yes, there's always that emotional, you know, because you're kind of putting yourself out there and it feels rejected, right? But kind of where I've come to is I try to be a little objective about it. I try to choose to be a little objective about it and ask myself objectively, are they right? Is this a problem? Because sometimes people are pointing out a problem that maybe I didn't see with it. Usually that's not it. It's just something that this they just don't, they just don't like it. And usually there's eight or ten or whatever other people who have given a review that love that same part of the story, whatever it is, you know. So yeah, so for me, I think it's it's helpful that with my writing, I generally have a lot of great responses, especially from my mom. She loves my stuff. So I mean, that's that's that's what I focused on.

SPEAKER_03:

No, so I mean, does anything else matter as long as your mom likes it? I sincerely, sincerely, right? Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I well that's an old joke from space balls. Uh I just remember it still made us laugh.

SPEAKER_02:

It still made us laugh. And I love the movie Spaceballs.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, it it was a commercial for Space Balls when I was a kid where whatever the director's name was, forget his name. He did like all the you know, young Frankenstein. Mel Brooks. Mel Brooks. And it's like Mel Brooks is, you know, this is the most best thing I've ever seen. And it was, but whatever, Mel Brooks's mom.

SPEAKER_03:

Mel Brooks' mom. Yeah.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And I just remember as a kid thinking that was so funny. And so I'm still laughing at it, and I'm old. No, so since I've gotten a lot of great, I do get a lot of great feedback, I try to focus on that. And in the author community, by the way, there's kind of a badge of honor when when you get your first one-star review of somebody who just hates your book. Like I have I'm a part of authors' groups where they're like, I got my first one-star review. Like, like they they passed a they now they have a badge of honor. And so you, yeah, you you really have to have a thick skin. And if you've edited the book enough, you know all that all that you had to work in to go through it. And so you've given it a critical eye enough, and and you realize that just if you're online, especially, there's gonna be people who say dumb stuff. That's just that's just the way it is, and it's unfortunate, but so that's a great question. But there are times though when sometimes somebody will say something and I'll go, hmm, maybe I could do that better next time. You know, just maybe I don't agree that it was bad, but I I can say, well, maybe you know, I'm always trying to get better.

SPEAKER_02:

It's very magnanimous of you. I'm I would struggle with that.

SPEAKER_03:

We do struggle with it sometimes with comments on this for the show, Alicia.

SPEAKER_02:

We don't, but I I don't see him then, Robin, because we've only had one where they're like, well, and so they're like too bad I was you could be better. I know, even yeah, for that one person, I'm sorry that we talk about surgery too much. Yeah, but we talk about surgery, but those that's the only negative one I've seen. Thank goodness. I'm I'm not seeking anything.

SPEAKER_03:

This is not a challenge.

SPEAKER_02:

We don't get a lot of anything. We're not gonna do it. We don't get a lot of anything.

SPEAKER_01:

What you're not asking for more negative comments? Is that what I'm not asking?

SPEAKER_02:

I mean, listen, constructive feedback is always appreciated. Constructive feedback. Thank you very much. Telling us you don't like our the the tone of our voice is not gonna change, so which nobody's actually said. I'm just gonna just gonna point that out though.

SPEAKER_03:

I I've said that about myself, but I'm the only one.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, we are our harshest critics, I believe, is kind of how it goes, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03:

Yes, yes, we are. Okay, I feel like we probably have a good number of listeners who have always thought about writing a book. I feel like that is a fair assessment. Alicia is shaking her head, yes. Whether that be to share their experiences, I feel like if they've come on the show or they are seeking out the Kind of information they feel like there's value in sharing their story. What would you tell them?

SPEAKER_01:

Wow. Well, I mean, my first reaction is yes, write write your story. I mean, write it out. I mean, that's my experience with writing is I learn more about myself through writing a story than probably even the audience ends up learning about whoever the characters are. Even so I learned more about myself writing the children's book. Even though people are giving me rave reviews, I still probably learned more about myself doing it because I had to challenge myself and overcome and research and I had to hear another person's perspective and all of that sort of stuff. And and and when it's your own, and when you're telling your own story, you're kind of going back and revisiting it and seeing it through a different lens, and you can see it in a in a more in a more real way. So whether you get it published or not, I would say yes, write it. So there's two parts of writing. The first part is you just write it. There's two parts of your brain, there's a creative part and the critic part. And when you write it first, you you just want the kid who likes to play to do it. Just let the kid play. And I t what what I tell other, because I, you know, I tell other authors who write, I say, and here's the thing, you would never, as a kid's drawing a picture, you would never look over their shoulder and be critical while they're drawing the picture. Like that would be like just a mean thing to do. So I was like, so why do we do it to ourselves? Why do we sit down and start creating and then treat the kid in our brain who just wants to play and just be critical the whole time? So just turn the critic off and then just write it. Just write it whatever it is and however you want to say it, write it for you first. And then if you want to get it out there for people, then turn the critic on and think, okay, how are other people gonna read this? And I want them to understand it and what's the message I want to get out to them. So then you got to think about things like audience. Who's the audience gonna be? Is your audience other people and what ages? You know, other people with Crohn's and other, and and or are you trying to get it out there to people who don't have Crohn's, right? And you're trying to get it out to them, and you're just kind of trying to tell them your experience so they can hear it and understand and have compassion, whatever it might be. Or is there another message you're trying to get out of it that where Crohn's is just the avenue by which you learned resiliency? You know, there's a lot of different ways you can do it, and so that's a long answer.

SPEAKER_03:

That's a great answer.

SPEAKER_01:

As you can tell, I talk about writing a lot with people. I had a friend of mine the other day, she messaged me on Facebook. She said, My daughter's 16 and she needs to interview somebody about a job she wants to do and she wants to be a writer. Can she interview you? And I'm like, twist my arm, make me talk about her. So, no, so that's what I would say is once you write it, once you kind of get it out of your brain a little bit, then you can start thinking, okay, who is this gonna be for and what's my goal in getting it to them? Then you can start to edit it and revise it along the way. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Is that where then you would go and seek out some of these writing groups like you referenced? Is that kind of the next step beyond that?

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, that's always a great step. I'm a big believer in writing groups, uh, obviously. So I don't know if I need them as much now, but definitely in the in the beginning and the first few years, having a good writing group can keep you going when you want to quit because you know, like, especially if you meet every other week or you meet every month, you know, the one I'm in now meets every month online. And so, you know, you're gonna need to have something to to share. And so if you don't got something, then I mean, they don't, they're not gonna like put me down or anything, but like there's a certain like okay, urgency to make sure you're writing and you're keeping writing because a big part of writing well or becoming a good writer is just consistency and doing it a lot. It's like anything, yeah. It's like writing songs, you know. I've I've I'm trying to remember who it was, you know, Paul Simon or some great songwriters, like, yeah, the first hundred songs you write, they're probably gonna be dumb, they're probably gonna be awful. So just get through it, just get through those hundred songs, but just write them, and you just gotta get through it. And it's wasn't a hundred, it might have been, you know, a little shorter than a hundred. But so writing groups to me, because they're gonna a good writing group will say, You are great at this, and they're gonna see that you're great at stuff that you didn't know you were good at. And it still happens to me where somebody says, You did such a good job of this, and I'm like, Oh, I just did it, I didn't know it was good. But then other people see mistakes you don't see. That's why you have editors, and that's why you have different people when you're put it when you're publishing a book, because your eyes don't see your mistakes the same way. Yeah, so a great writing group is I don't know if it's essential, but I would say it's pretty essential because but I'm a more relational person myself, so it helps me to get that sort of feedback. But I think that helps everybody.

SPEAKER_03:

A support group for writers, yeah. Well, it's like anything for all of us, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

It's it's like you guys know the same struggles, you guys all have the same imposter syndrome. You are you guys, you all you you all have the same, this was so hard, and oh, you know, you know, do I just say said every time, or can I say asked, or can I, you know, you just you have all the same questions and you just gotta, you know, kind of have it out, not have it out in a bad way, but just kind of go through that some of that stuff with each other.

SPEAKER_03:

Did you know that you use the word utterly 50 times in this book? You should probably get out of thesaurus and use it different words besides utterly.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, that kind of thing. I had I had an editor say that recently because he had I'd written a few articles for him, and he said, I'm just letting you know, you use the word that a lot. And I'm like, oh my god, he's right. And so now I'm conscious about it whenever I write. Not that I'll never use it, but you know, if I can get rid of it, I'll get rid of it. Yes.

SPEAKER_02:

So one question that still relates to writing is in this, in the case of the Miles Who Couldn't Eat Cheese, it's very much inspired by Alex and Alex's life and struggles and things that she faced with Crohn's disease. I'm curious how often when you're writing, there are other people within your life or yourself that are pulled in as inspiration for characters or situations. How often are you writing yourself into books or your family into books or your friends into books?

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, so you want you want to know the secret. There's this this is a secret because every writer does this, in my opinion. They may not admit it, but the secret is I would say for most authors of fiction, especially, your first few books, those are all your family and friends. Every character is somebody you know. Like I'm just I'm just gonna put that out there. You were thinking of somebody, even if it's a president or you were thinking of somebody you know, you just gave them a different name and maybe changed their hair color or something else. You know, you just that's what you did. That's just the way it goes. Then the second part of your question is about yourself. The secret is those are other people, but if you think about it, those are other people as I see them. So it's kind of me too. So one of the great things about being a writer, and I think the great thing about reading books is I have to put myself in other people's shoes. So let's say I'm writing a scene, but I'm a woman who's trying to, you know, who's trying to protect her child or something like that. Like I have to put myself in that place. And that expands to me, that expands your consciousness in a sense, right? Expands your ability to understand and relate to people. Like I'm not that person, right? But I can put myself in that shoe, those shoes, or whatever, and try to think, you know, how would I react, or how would this person react, and what would they feel, and all of those sort of things, and then try to express it as if it's genuine. So, in a sense, because I I think we're all more complicated than we think. So when you're writing a story, there's a little bit of you in every character, like even the great villains. I'm telling you, George Lucas, part of him wanted to be Darth Vader. I'm just telling you, part of 100%. Because that's a great villain. It's a great villain. And if it and there's any great villain, whoever wrote that villain is like, if I were bad, this is how I would be. Right? It's the cheesy villains that are just like, yeah, that's kind of dumb. But the the ones that are complex and make you think and you know, really challenge you uh when the story, the writer was thinking they were putting themselves and making that villain human to a certain degree.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, that's my dark side that uh I don't I don't let slip out. I mean, listen, every once in a while there's days where I wouldn't mind, like, you know, Sauron and a ring of power. So, you know, there's that.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

There's that.

SPEAKER_01:

For sure.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay, bringing it back to this book and this series, I'm curious what is next for our owl Alex. Who else is she going to make friends with? Do you have like a list of other disease states or or ideas that you're gonna like?

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, so we yeah, we do have a list, and there's several different several different ones along the way. So part of it is, you know, I'm not trying to be manipulative and make people buy the book, but part of it is you have to sell enough books to get a second book, you know, with the with the with the publisher. That's kind of how business works. Ultimately, we could self-publish, but self-publishing children's books is really expensive because it's in color and that thing. But the next one that as we've talked, the next one would be probably ADHD. I would probably write a book about ADHD because I have two children with ADHD. So we have learned a lot over the past five to six years, seven years of oh, we didn't know that's what was going on, you know, that was that's what was going on. We didn't know that, uh, and then learning how to manage that while also holding people accountable. You're still a person that needs to be held accountable. These aren't excuses for you to act horrible or all that. So probably ADHD. Because one thing, as we've learned, I think it would be very it would be an interesting way to help other people see that the struggles, the real struggles that a lot of people with ADHD go through. And sometimes even people with ADHD don't know why they struggle with some of these things, depression and anxiety. You would think ADHD, or they're just happy all the time, but really they feel like failures because they don't they can't do what other people do or they don't feel like they can, and all that. So that's kind of on my my radar that I've been kind of brainstorming about what that would look like.

SPEAKER_03:

I love that. As a person who has a child that was diagnosed as an adult in her early 20s, and a sister who was diagnosed in her 50s.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I was gonna say fertile ground right now. Yeah, because we we are seeing so many more people being diagnosed. We are seeing this awareness of you know, how it looks different in some people, how it looks different in girls versus boys kind of things. Very good. Yeah, it's a pretty powerful book.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, one of my kids who has ADHD is a boy, and now he's 20, and we waited a little late. I in my, you know, unfortunately, but that's part of what you learn. And then with my youngest, she's a she's a girl, and it and yeah, it ex it exhibits differently with them. And some of it's boy and girl, some of it's personality, some of everybody's different. But yeah, the boy-girl thing does it does make a difference for sure.

SPEAKER_03:

I would love to talk about this book more, but it's time for me to ask you the last question. So I'm gonna bring it all the way back to all the way back, all the way back to Crohn's disease, IBD, the research that you did for this book. What is the one thing that you want the IBD community to know?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, as I've gotten to know some of the very creative names on some of the Facebook groups and Instagram groups for uh, you know, IBD and Crohn's, you know, lots of poop references or whatever it might be.

SPEAKER_03:

Lots of poop references, there are.

SPEAKER_01:

I think there could be, and I don't know, I don't think that this was an issue with Alex specifically because she was such an outgoing person, but I think there could be maybe an element of embarrassment to talk about your digestive system with other people, it's not a normal thing of conversation for most people. So my piece of advice would be that even though it might feel embarrassing or strange because it's uncommon and an uncommon topic of conversation, that you are you are worth having friends. And in order for you to have friends, and you need friends, it's we we are all social people, we need connections, and in order to have friends, you have to be vulnerable, and that way you can find the few, the proud, who will go with you, you know, who will go to who will be who will find the creative ways like they do at the end of the the kids, the the mouse who couldn't eat cheese, find the creative ways to spend time with you and be your friend. And I think the people who do that, by the way, they learn a lot too. They stretch themselves and they become better people by making giving margin for people who need it in a different way. So it's a gift, and everybody's a gift, everybody has something to give, and you're worth being a friend and having a friend. And so just advocate for yourself. I know it's probably embarrassing sometimes, but don't be embarrassed. Advocate for yourself, be vulnerable, and try to find those few people who will be lifelong friends because you need them. We all need them.

SPEAKER_03:

I love that response. Thank you so much for saying that. Yes, you have to have those friends who who really know what's going on. I would take this a step further and say you need those friends who really know what's going on that aren't patients. Because like I have you have a really strong connection or people who are patients and totally get it, but you also need that friend group that isn't just immersed in the right medical day-to-day uh struggle of living with it. Yeah. My very best friend, I was not well when she was getting married, and I was her maid of honor, and I cut out of her reception. Like they cut the cake, and I was I did an Irish goodbye. And I went to her house the next day, and she's like, We figured no worries. Like, so it wasn't like I can't believe you left my wedding. It was I'm so glad that you came and stayed as long as you did. Like, I'm so glad you made it through. So you definitely need those people who get it from a different perspective. Yeah, thank you so much, MB, for joining us. Thank you so much for writing this book, the mouse who couldn't cheese. Everybody, if you haven't read it yet, go get it. Thank you, everybody, for joining us. And cheers, everybody.

SPEAKER_01:

Cheers.

SPEAKER_02:

If you like this episode, please rate, review, subscribe, and even better, share it with your friends. Cheers.

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Alicia Barron

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